Late Night Conversations are Fun: Pickling

[ickaimp]

So it's after midnight and what is Icka! doing instead of sleeping or writing crackfic?

... on chat, discussing murder mystery plots. >_>

So, does anyone know how well a body would be preserved if it was stuck in a resonsably air-tight container filled with something with a high alcohol content?

Would that pickle the body, or would it end up like a tequila worm?

Comments

Disclaimer: amateur chemist with only a single class of microbio

[hakaisha.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, honey used to be used as a preservative because its water content is so low that it discourages bacterial growth (but it has dormant bacterial spores).

If it's just pure alcohol (I would guess probably methanol, as ethanol--drinking alcohol--probably isn't as easily obtained in high purity, and while bacterial fermentation in wine just turns the fruit sugars into alcohol, I've no idea what it'd do to a human body), it would probably retard the decomposition. I'd imagine it'd turn out like the worm (side note: people eat those?! O_o), as I think the absence of water (since you mentioned high alcohol content, and I know high purity ethanol can be used as an disinfectant), brine, or otherwise acid would not give the picking effect (and again, I've no clue if the random bacteria would produce lactic/acetic acid required for the pickling effect while undergoing anerobic respiration).

If you really want to preserve it, I'd advise adding formaldehyde or some other similar preservative to the methanol to obtain maximum preservation. (The ratios of the chemicals I've no idea, though.)

Re: Disclaimer: amateur chemist with only a single class of microbio

[hakaisha.livejournal.com]

Oh, also...I'd imagine that the alcohol (with or without formaldehyde) method would probably not bloat, because its the aneraerobic respiration of bacteria in fermentation that produces carbon dioxide, which would bloat a body.

Formaldehyde, in particular, would not only kill bacteria but also freeze proteins in a body.

Re: Disclaimer: amateur chemist with only a single class of microbio

[ickaimp.livejournal.com]

Okay, that was one of the major things I was worried about, was the bloating... *whew* I hate bloated bodies, those really are the worst.

And hopefully, this way the bodies will be recgoniseable when theyr'e found.

We're thinking about drinking alcohal, because it's something that you can get in large quantities without needing to go any place special, and no one thinks twice about it, other than wanting to be invited to the party. ~_^

Re: Disclaimer: amateur chemist with only a single class of microbio

[hakaisha.livejournal.com]

I think, if it came down to between methanol or ethanol, as long as it's really concentrated (like, 90+ percent alcohol in the make-do embalming solution) it wouldn't make a difference. However, if you're using drinkable liquor (at least, that's how I read it as, since you mentioned easily obtainable and party favourites), the bacteria in it is certainly capable of ananereobic respiration and thus producing carbon dioxide and thus induces bloating. I'm not sure if they get rid of the bacteria before selling the liquor, but I'd guess no, because that'd require cracking open the bottle of wine/beer/whatever one just spent the last x amount of time fermenting. And a body would provide ample sugars for said bacteria, if it's still alive, to metabolize into carbon dioxide and whatever anaereobic bacteria produces. (I'm so not made for microbi.) So I would not recommend using something obtained straight from a liquor store to use as preserving fluid.

So if one wanted to use ethanol/drinking alcohol, and want it to be inconspicuous/easily obtained, either one has to buy the alcohol from some source (for example, I could get high purity ethanol when I was doing lab work, which uses it as a solvent). Of course, that's more traceable; if you want more layman's source of high purity ethanol, I'd recommend someone going into a liquor store, buying a crapload of the cheapest stuff with the highest alcohol content possible and then purify it later; ethanol's boiling point is around 80 degrees celcius, so with a little finesse, one can probably distill some liquor at home to obtain a higher purity ethanol--enough to preserve without bloating.

Does this help any? =)

(Oh, saitaina, formaldehyde is not in drinkable liquor. It's poisonous; at low concentrations it's an irritant.)

Re: Disclaimer: amateur chemist with only a single class of microbio

[hakaisha.livejournal.com]

...And I hit submit before I realized that this is a murder, and the murderer would probably not be putting much thought into preserving bodies as long as it doesn't smell too badly in a short amount of time and would thus just use whatever's convenient and available. >_> Scrap the distillation then. (Sorry, chem geek coming out.)

In that case, I'd think just a caseload of the strongest alcohol one can get their hands on. Hell, even high purity isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) can probably do the disinfectant trick, and is probably easier to obtain in high purity (can just buy it) and wouldn't have the anaerobic bacteria problem.